The currently vaporous state of my submissiveness tank has me thinking. Which comes first, denial or submission? Is there such a thing as a “natural” submissive? How are they different than one “created” by being denied?
The thing is, I’m not normally a submissive person. In fact, in all other areas of my life, I’m a natural dominant. People look to me to lead them and I do it without even thinking about it. I take direction poorly, mostly because I think I know the best way to do things. I enjoy directing others. I exude confidence, even when I’m not feeling it. Nothing about me would lead anyone to think that, once I got home, I enjoyed having the boot of Belle’s sexuality stand on the throat of my own.
In addition, I have no long history of fantasizing about being dominated. I have always enjoyed porn involving transference of power and sadomasochism, but not from any particular point of view until recently. I totally get off on being controlled, tied up, abused, etc., but, just as easily, I could see myself getting off on being the controller and abuser (though not with Belle – imagining us in that dynamic is the most dick-shriveling idea I can think of). I guess that makes me a switch, though in another time and place, I could easily see myself as a total top.
So, all that being said, I love how it feels to be dominated by Belle. I do crave the return of feeling submissive. But, that feeling is not one I have unless she’s exercising her control over the cock. I don’t carry it around with me all the time until I’ve been forced to live without access to the cock for a couple of days and am sitting on juicy prostate. Is it like this for everyone? Can some guys come and come and still feel this way? These are not rhetorical questions. I’d really like to hear from readers on that.
I also wonder if, as the porn seems to suggest, all men can be brought to this place. I’ve always been an attentive lover and pretty much always want my partners to be getting as much out of the act as I am (at least, I’m that way with my female partners), but I wonder if a total pig of a man – who’s never made a woman come and really doesn’t care if he ever does – who feels the woman’s place is anywhere she’s not blocking his view of the game, could that guy ever be brought to the same place I’ve been? Probably not since, outside of fantasy pornword, you’d never be able to get a guy like that to go along.
Anyway, those are some of the things I’m wondering about on a lazy, sunny Friday afternoon.
I don’t like the term, but I understand you are differentiating between ‘natural’ and ‘created’ and yes, absolutely – most submissive men that I have met are ‘natural’ submissives. You are immersed in the ‘submissives who are in chastity’ subculture, so see it everywhere, but I’d wager that the majority of bdsm relationships don’t practice it. I have only just started playing with chastity. I never used it with any submissives before this and certainly had no need to do it to get, have, keep, or deepen their submission.
Many submissive men (I would say most) simply *are* and chastity is just another way to play with them. Even with my current, I don’t do it to deepen his submission, I do it because it’s hot to have that level of control. It certainly does impact his mindset, and I enjoy it, but it doesn’t create his submission.
I think the only difference is that different submissives have different triggers. I expect my submissive to not need anything specific to bring him under my control except the desire to please. I assert my dominance in different ways to reinforce the dynamic, including play, but overall, his desire to please me is what drives him.
Your submission is heightened immensely by the chastity, but I suppose the question is whether you feel submissive (on a scale of 1 to 10) when not chaste? Is your submission really created by your denial?
This is not at all unusual with submissive men (contrary to the stereotype of submissive men being submissive in all aspects of their life), however most don’t *need* chastity to become submissive. They come home, strip off their ‘real life’ cloak and are free to hand over control to their dominant, it’s like a relief to be able to do that, a shedding of their external skin.
I’d be interested to hear other perspectives… where are all your other readers? Come on in, the water’s warm…
Probably not, because hell, what woman would waste their time on *that* guy when there are so many wonderful ones around?!
Ferns
Oh, sure. I get that chastity’s not a main-stream bdsm thing. From what I can tell, a lot of people who practice it don’t even think of themselves as kinky. Tom’s called it the gateway drug to kink, and I think he’s right.
I think it really is. I don’t know. On a scale of one to ten (outside of chastity), it really varies, but is below 5 surely. Three? So much depends on how she treats me. It’s an inverse mirror to the level of domination she’s transmits. I have no doubt *you* can bring a man into submission with just a look, but you and Belle are very different. Chastity amplifies her domination of me and therefore makes me a lot more submissive.
My issue here is I don’t know any openly submissive men. All I know is what i can glean from discussion boards, FetLife, and other blogs. They all seem pretty damned submissive – more submissive than I feel most of the time. Then again, I’m sure if I read my own blog without any knowledge of who I am or what I’m like the 99% of the time not accounted for her, I’d sounds just as subby as they do.
The flavor of submission I like is the one where I feel her actively subjugating my sexuality until it falls under the sway of hers. There’s more of a conquering of my masculinity going on as opposed to me giving it up to her willingly. Not sure if that makes any sense.
These are complicated questions, and of course everyone is different.
You may feel much more strongly submissive, or even “submissive at all,” when you are in chastity, but somehow you do seek out being in chastity in the first place. Most men wouldn’t agree to it, much less seek it out. I mean, what is the upside? What makes you want to feel controlled, dominated, or submissive?
That’s submissiveness.
In college, I once tried to argue that people weren’t really altruistic – that they just did altruistic-seeming things because it made them feel good.
“Isn’t that what altruism is?” the other guy argued.
Well, yeah.
Submission isn’t altruistic, but the desire to feel and be submissive is submissive.
Joscelin doesn’t need orgasm denial in order to want to feel submissive, controlled, dominated, like he has no choices and so on. But he doesn’t just automatically feel those things either. He feels them in fantasy, but in order to feel them in real life something does have to happen. There has to be some input.
It’s like being turned on. When you’re 16 you might just get a hard-on all the time for no reason, but adults aren’t always the same way. Sure, you’re aroused when you masturbate, and when you do, you (generally) think about stuff that would turn you on. But if you go to have sex with someone, there has to be something there to make it happen for you, whether it’s as simple as the sight of your partner’s body or takes 25 minutes of verbal and/or physical foreplay or whatever.
That’s what I think, anyway. But I don’t have all that much experience myself – just the one boyfriend, and myself as a submissive, really.