I ended my last post (of any significance) from almost a month ago this way:
I desperately want to find myself back in the pre-London subspace. I don’t think one weekend can fix everything, but I hope it’s the beginning to the way out of the particular rough patch.
The weekend I was looking forward to and those that came after – until the one just past – did not see the situation improve. In fact, it got worse. So bad, in fact, that there were times I thought our 21 month experiment in power exchange was coming to an end. But it didn’t.
I don’t even know where to begin. To be honest, I have no desire to retell the past three plus weeks. Short story is, as I’ve been eluding to for a while, things just lost steam. I felt like Belle had started to take things for granted and wasn’t really exerting much effort to maintain my headspace. As if, once set upon my subbie trajectory, I’d just keep coasting indefinitely. My chastity started to feel like incarceration. My desire to server her evaporated. Finally, when we had sex, I shed any submissive or denied pretense. I fucked her like the old days and came. Then, when she told me it was time to get back into the device, I refused (politely). Clearly, the lowest point of our new D/s dynamic had been reached.
Then, sometime last week, we finally had The Talk. Even though unlocked, I had refrained from orgasm – too afraid really to let go of the last tattered shred of our arrangement. I was getting horny, though, and we were going to have to come to some agreement. We were either going to end this chapter of our sex life or we’d have to address the issues at hand.There was a lot of emotion and she cried and I felt like shit. We hadn’t really moved forward, but I felt like the barrier had been broken. Something was going to happen, just not that night. This past weekend, we talked some more. It was better this time. More constructive. Things are back on track. I still haven’t come, though she has, and I’m horny as hell and, maybe most importantly, she’s locked me back up and I’m OK with it.
While it may not be popular in some circles for me to say this, the fact is my submissive feelings need to be tended. The more she denies me and teases me and pushes me (more on that later), the more deeply I feel my submission. I have attached to myself this rabbit metaphor, so I’ll stick with. My subbie side is not unlike a rabbit in that it’s easily spooked and difficult to get out of its burrow, but once coaxed out, it can be tamed. Stop feeding the rabbit, and it’ll leave again. That’s how my submission works. That’s not how everybody’s works, but it’s how mine does.
So I suggested a few things. First and more importantly, I want to be pushed. Pushed in every regard. I want her to hurt me a little more than I can stand. I want to be denied past the point at which I beg for release. I want her to set high expectations with regard to my service. If there is a knob somewhere that turns to ten, she should set it to eleven. I want to do all these things because that’s what this particular submissive wants more than anything: To show his dominant partner that he can go farther than he thinks he can for her. And then, once I achieve that goal, I want to be pushed past it again. In everything. Always. Make me prove how badly I want this. Because while I may not enjoy the moment of any particular act, it will, in retrospect, fill me with warmth and happiness.
Second, not all of this needs to fall fully-formed from Belle’s imagination. She lives this role in a very lonely state. We hardly talk about her side of it and she has no peers to turn to. It’s all internalized and, when she starts to slip, it only builds and builds until she assumes she’s a failure at it. Then, instead of talking about it, she tends to lock up. Hard feelings on both sides get exacerbated. We spiral downward. Instead, I asked her to think of our dynamic like she would a superior/inferior relationship at work. She can’t possibly have all the answers all of the time. When she feels herself at an impasse, I’ve encouraged her to ask me for ideas. Just like at work, she’ll choose the one that feels right to her and I’ll go along with it. Also, I’ve encouraged her to come here and write about what she’s thinking or struggling with. I know there’s no end to the advice she’ll get from readers like you. In short, there is no need for her to shoulder her role all on her own. And I honestly do not expect her to always know which way to go next.
Finally, I poposed some guidelines with regard to sex. I think, on average, it’d be nice to have 2-3 sexual encounters a week. These can be fairly simple to more involved, but one every seven to ten days (especially when I’m locked up for weeks at a time) just won’t work for me. I’ll get depressed. The little subbie bunny will go back into his burrow. Neither of us want that.
Good god, look at the time. I started this post not just because it’s been a long time coming but also because being back in the device and back on the path to subdom left me distracted and sleepless. There’s much more I could say and what I have said I’m sure I could have said better, but now it’s time for sleep.
15 thoughts on “Reboot”
Disclaimer: This comment makes an assumption. Feel free to tell me that it’s not all about me. 😉
If you’re referring to Orgasm Denial Does Not Submissive Men Make, then I’m afraid you misunderstood me because my submissive feelings, just as with my partners’ dominant feelings, need to be tended, too. (Admittedly, my post was rambly and apparently didn’t make the point I intended it to.)
I’ll try in one sentence: tending to and encouraging feelings of submission is not the same as creating submissive feelings.
I’m more like you than I may have let on. My bad. Good for you for standing your ground on what you (may have) thought was an inconsistency on my part.
It’s not all about you. But it was partially about you. At least I know you’re paying attention! 🙂
Exactly. My submission (and yours, I suspect) is given in exchange for something, not as an offering on an alter. I suppose it’s like any other relationship dynamic in that, once the positive feedback from the other partner that gives it meaning declines or stops, so does the submission. That was the point I was trying to make and, yeah, I though I might catch some shit from you for it. I’m glad to see you’re being so reasonable. 😉
There are other readers who sometimes comment that were also in mind when I wrote it. They leave me with the impression that they think a true submissive is only in it for the act of being submissive and that my quid pro quo logic means I’m either topping from below or a poseur or some shit like that. But that’s not you.
So, I think the issue I took with you before is the same issue I take with this sentence: I feel that you’re being a little careless with words, and that’s a Really Big Deal to me.
I contend that it’s not the submission that “stop,” it’s the motivation to express that with this particular partner. To say that without positive feedback the submission declines or stops is like saying without fuel, a car is no longer a car. But that is not true; it is still a car, it’s just not very useful to you.
Please be careful with words. A lot of the people who you say comment about so-called “true submission” are even less careful than you, and the only fair way I know of to make such silliness as their ilk disappear is to avoid confusing the poor lads with less-than-careful wording.
I hope this clarifies both my comment, and my old post, even more.
When I said, “…once the positive feedback from the other partner that gives it meaning declines or stops, so does the submission,” I was using “submission” as a verb, not a noun.
So, as far as I can tell, we’re saying the same thing. I am not asserting that, absent the motivation to express my submissiveness, I stop being a submissive male. I am saying I lose the motivation to express my submissiveness. Full stop.
I don’t think there’s any way for us to agree more short of a Vulcan mind meld or something.
I find that, beside being one way you enjoy sex, and beside how much you are submissive by nature, one thing this dynamic does is (try to) pull more of Belle’s attention into your sexual relationship.
You need her to pay attention to your sexual partnership. You took the big step of opening up about how you wanted that relationship to work. She agreed to at least try it. You’re biggest problems seem to still arise from having her attention lose focus. If you dropped the D/s part of your sex life, would her level of attention be strong enough for you to feel comfortable?
Any long-term relationship need adjusting now and then. Good to hear you’re still working at it.
Yes, absolutely. I actually wrote a post about this at some point quite a while ago, but that’s one of the primary benefits of our dynamic. We cannot drift away from one another sexually since we’re essentially attached to each other through our shared cock. Our history would suggest that this might have been an underlying motivation for assuming this arrangement, but in reality, it was a happy coincidence.
Focus, confidence, interest – whatever. Yes, that sums things up nicely.
I think the major subtext of the angst that surrounds the idea of us not having the D/s overlay it that question right there. I know that I want to be with Belle for the rest of my life. She’s my partner. But we cannot go back to the way things were two years ago. If we pulled D/s out, what would things look like? I don’t know that either of us have any idea. We seem to act like the D/s is what’s holding us together, but I know that’s not true.
Yeah, I think it’s an issue of semantics at this point since I do think we agree, I just find the need to be very careful with this particular terminology because it’s so misunderstood by so many other people; clarifying noun versus verb distinctions is a part of that.
Anyway, I do think a Vulcan mind meld would be cool. I’d love to get a peek like that inside your head. 🙂 Thanks for offering peeks through your writing. I am, as you noted, paying close attention.
I could have written these same words myself a year or two ago!
Yes regarding the need for sex, it’s ironic. You take a man (you or I) with a higher sex drive than their partner, then lock them up such that their partner is the one having more orgasms. How to skew the mismatch even further! It’s no wonder that until everything gets worked out these incidents happen. Used to happen to us a lot.
Sandy and I have found that we can Barbara without orgasms. By that I mean that we enjoy kissing, squirming around, she enjoys spanking or teasing me to the edge. It doesn’t always turn her on but she has fun. It’s become sex to us, the kind that fills in the gap between kinky events and her orgasms, but still meets my need for intimacy and sensuality in my day.
Hope this makes sense.
As the dominant woman in my relationship (and a new Domme), I know the weight of the dynamic Belle is carrying. I really hope she can find an outlet of some variety so that she’s not left feeling bad about herself. You can do it Belle!
Mrs. Edge and I have the same skewed desires, and at times it has been very difficult to reconcile. Our solution is that I will often try to seduce her into having sex. Even when I *know* I’m not going to be let out, it still satisfies me (somewhat) to have the physical intimacy.
This is one of the reasons that I don’t understand the “hands off’ arrangement that (I think) you have with Belle. If you are constantly waiting on her, then it’s up to her to make all of the decisions, including the decision to be seduced. It’s possible that I’ve misunderstood how you tow approach this, but I wonder if you were able to act as if you were not wearing the device if that would change the dynamic for you at all.
Belle’s Rule is that I need to wait 72 hours after she has an orgasm before I can initiate sex again. She can do whatever she wants, of course, but since she typically isn’t interested in sex for a couple days following her climax, the rule is in place to keep her from feeling any guilt for turning me down. Also, it gives me something to look forward to (even though there’s no guarantee she’ll give me action even after the three days).
Like you, I find sex with her is a type of satisfaction (I even get sleepy after she comes even though I’m still plenty horny), but it’s not a satisfaction that has any “legs”. I’d be right back in her grill the next morning if it were up to me. Seventy-two hours provides a cushion for her to recharge and also allows her to control my actions without having to actually control my actions.
It’s better than our first version of the rule where I wasn’t allowed to initiate sex at all and had to ask to touch her in any overtly sexual way. A girl does like to be pursued, after all. In balance, I think Belle’s Rule is just about perfect for us.
First I wish to say that I feel for you. Completely.
Second, I think that it’s pretty hard for the loving, caring, wonderful partner to fulfill all the needs of a submissive spouse. I think Mistress Rika said something in the lines of “I can’t think for all my subs, so they offer me services and I reward them or punish them if I feel like it”. I don’t know if you have the same problem as I do, that is, I want everything to happen magically just right. I long for the things only Wonderboy can decide to give me, and it kind of is important to me that he decides to give them to me. I’m just thinking that If Belle (hello, Belle Fille!) is struggling with a set of requirements because she doesn’t have the need to hurt you – is not a sadist or a top or dominant in that respect, but is acting as one out of love – it probably would require strict guidelines for her actions for her to feel comfortable. For example, when you said you declined the device, politely it made my heart sink. It’s pretty hard to trust the other one if the actions are, even sometimes, rejections of things decided together, just like this. Even if she really got a kick having you locked, it would be a huge thing to reject the desire like that. I know you were yourself in a bad place but you are not treating her as she has the same desire and need you do. How I see it, and this could be complete bullshit for you for all I know, is that your own uncertainty, insecurity and inability to account for your emotions when they are evolving is one of the biggest reasons for it. Because, it might be hard to dominate someone with love when they want it, crave for it, but when they get uncertain, it is impossible.
Third, I thought about the same thing as Tom. Even if you feel it is your place to stay away for 3 whole days after she’s come because it makes her uncomfortable, is it really messing with the dynamic too much – for you? I mean, sometimes it’s important to get to try and be rejected, and to show the other one (and yourself) that you will try, and also that you can handle the rejection. Some things you just can’t intellectualize, some things you have to do over and over again. Like say I love you. Like have sexual encounters. Like ask for what you need even though you think the other one already knows it and even when they’ll probably say no. It might be important for her as well, now that you’re no longer in the puppy bunny phase and can handle OD and chastity a whole lot differently.
This of course stems from my own life of pleading and getting rejected, and learning to live with that. Well, as Wonderboy says “I love it that you want sex more than me. It makes me feel so desired and loved”. But if I didn’t show it to him? Ah, what then?
I totally understand that. Hurting me, denying me, making me *suffer* is not part of her. I don’t think she can really comprehend it all because it’s so alien to her. I get how hard that would be to deal with from her perspective. That’s one of the reasons I suggested she also add her two bits to the blog. She has to do all this alone with no support. I get to blather on here and (sometimes) on Fetlife or some forum. She’s got nobody to bounce stuff off of. It’s unfair. Totally.
I think it’s a good compromise, but yeah, I’m doing it because it’s her rule. If she suddenly lifted it and allowed me to follow my bliss, that’d be great. I wouldn’t mind being rejected five times a week and could even think of ways to make it kinda hot. However, Belle gets stressed when she turns me down. I don’t want to stress her. So I follow the rule.
In the past, when I wasn’t allowed to initiate sex, that was a problem. But even if I’m inside the 72 hour window (like I am now), there are still ways I can make her understand how badly I want her.
Personally, I think that “it makes me feel so desired and loved” would be the best part for the person on the other side of this arrangement. Imagine always having someone crawling all over you, desperate for your attention and sex. Really great for the ego, but also somewhat annoying after a while. Another thing Belle’s Rule allows – some personal space.
I thought that was a great idea, although it might be somewhat intimidating for her, since this is your blog. But even we who really want and need this stuff, still need to talk about it, in graphic detail no less, just to get our thoughts straight – and to accept ourselves. How could more be expected of those who are dragged to it by their partners, so they don’t even have the inner turmoils to point the way? Whatever way Belle finds to talk about this, it will probably be for the best for all. I’ve sometimes had to say to WB that he’d go talk to someone else. It sometimes just gets too overwhelming, because he, also, doesn’t have anyone else to talk to, and I really don’t have enough perspective (strenght) sometimes to give him the keys how to handle me. If that makes any sense.
Just what I was thinking. I actually think that for me, the whole service thing would be fuelled with this. I want to be dominated. So, I don’t want a prize, I want to be held back. Is it hot in here, or what?
Yeaah, I’ve read the old posts. 😉 Nice little bunny rabbit, stay still, would you? That’s why I said you’ve grown out of the puppy phase, but maybe it’s just that your writing has changed or the guideline works so well even in your thoughts?
I believe that the personal space is something we have to learn to ask for, or take, and it’s a really important thing to learn. It just seems to me so intellectualized to have a guideline like that all the time, like the dynamic is written somewhere, so your submission in that regard is also to the letter and not to the actual, physical or verbal domination. Hmm.
Is it just stupid (or do you already do it?) to inforce this law every morning with, for example, by Belle saying something like “I have faith in your endurance for the remaining day(s) you are not to have access to me. You are the best a woman could have, and I love it that you will go through yet another day without any release. It makes me very happy that you give me your orgasms.”
Or something to that effect. I have a household metaphor to explain why. We do the dishes in turns, but I always make it a poin to thank WB for doing them. It makes him happy, and he does the dishes a lot more frequently and enthusiasticly, when I commend him. Positive feedback. Does wonders. That’s why I thought it was actually a really clever metaphor you used with Belle – the one about work. We all know (do we all know?) that worker bees need constant guidance as well as positive feedback. Maybe it’s a good thing (even a hot thing?) if she’d take it like that, seemingly without any emotion? I’ve think you’ve written about her doing it bunch of times, but it just has to be constant. And she needs to get over the guilt. It must be so hard if you can’t really understand why the other one wants things like this. It’s hard for me as well, and I do want these things.
I so understand Belle, though, (well, what it seems like, since she’s not even telling these things me herself) because I’m in a similar place right now. We have a guideline for no sexualt contact until sunday, for my benefit. Funny enough, we’ve never been happier… I’ll write more about it when I have the chance, in Past the Hurt. Meanwhile, I also have a very strong reaction of guilt if I reject sex from a willing partner. I know you’re doing the 3 day rule thing for love, of course. Sometimes I think, though, you/we just have to, both, push a little harder. I believe that the emotional response can be altered with constant repetition. That’s how we learn anything. And I’m trying to learn the same thing, so it’s not like I’m just letting air out of my mouth here, either. 🙂
Hmm. Rambling over. Will come back if I suddenly discover new perspectives…
Okay, the blog quotes didn’t go quite as planned. Hope you can read that!